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 COVID-19 Discussion 
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Postby gonzee » Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:38 am


so you believe everything the government tells you trip ?? :chuckel:


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Postby phunkyfeelone » Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:24 pm


Tripitaka wrote:
Sam Frost Logic 101 :D


If the government and scientists tells you to take a vaccine, cos it might help save your life, you should be able to tell them - no, it's my choice.

If the government and scientists tell you to wear a seat belt, cos it might help save your life, you should be able to tell them - no, it's my choice.

If the government and scientists tell you to wear sunscreen, cos it might help save your life, you should be able to tell them - no it's my choice.

If the government and scientists tell you to have a tetanus shot after stepping on a rusty nail, cos it might help save your life, you should be able to tell them - no, it's my choice.


Cheers
Trip


But if that seatbelt/sunscreen is ineffective placebo, then what is the point?
Pandemics go in waves, countries got through waves without vaccines, and in a few months there will be another wave caused by all the vaccinated people thinking they are bulletproof.

Take a look at Victoria, hospital cases for fully vaxed are rising by 1% per day, yet unvaccinated are falling.

Why do people still eat processed and red meat, which has been listed as a class A carcinogen?
People should always be able to choose for themselves, and shouldn't be vilified for their choices.


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Postby Ebbie » Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:49 pm


There's healthy scepticism. Then there's abject wilful stupidity. None of those examples - established vaccines, tetanus shots, seat belts etc - are synonymous with the CV-19 drugs.

COVID "vaccines" were prepared in a hurry and issued on emergency approval. Usually a drug will undergo a decade of trials and tests before approval. There wasn't time here.
Almost immediately the Pfeizer drug was issued in UK it became clear that some people were experiencing problems and within four hours a general alert went out that anyone who suffered from any kind of allergy could not take it.
Shortly after the AZ vaccine came online across EU, reports emerged of aneurysms. UK Govt and Oxford tried to deny a link but soon conceded there were potential problems and the advisory went out that anyone suffering frequent persistent headaches or migraine should not take it.
The other available drugs from Johnson and Moderna are built on the same chemical architecture, so offer similar contraindications.

Since then other side effects and contraindications have emerged and we still don't know if there are medium/long term side effects or other as yet unknown contraindications. This is because what the world is experiencing is not a vaccine roll out, but a live stage three drug trial on global scale. The reason for that is because something is better than nothing and humanity was facing an existential threat.
And before anyone mentions the Russian and Chinese vaccines - current data shows they are less than 40% effective and you're better off just observing strict epidemic protocols of remaining clean and staying the hell away from each other.

Currently there is no direct cure or treatment for COVID. There is one drug in trial that shows promise. It is at least a year away from being considered for approval.
Despite what people have come to popularly believe, current drugs DO NOT prevent either transmission or contraction of COVID. They DO NOT offer immunity. What they do is prevent MOST of the people from developing the WORST of the symptoms. You can still catch it. You can still pass it on. This is why in a country like UK where almost 90% of the population have had a single shot and almost 85% have had two, cases, hospitalisations and death rates are on the rise.
This is why I choose to call them drugs not vaccines.
We're a few years away from a genuine vaccine, if we get one at all. Let's not forget that this thing is most closely related to the common cold and the best treatment we have for that is still chicken soup, hot honey and lemon, and aspirin. We can't cure it or vaccinate against it.

Now the bit that no one gets.

Every time a virus transmits, every time it sets up home in a new host, it mutates. It changes. You get a whole new variant. And now the world has opened its borders once more and travel is being undertaken freely, it's only a matter of time before the current Beta or Delta variants co-mingle, have a little party with all the other viruses out there we haven't built our usual immunity to because we've been staying away from each other and the genuine terror among virologists and epidemiologists is that something will emerge we simply cannot contain or treat.

And if that happens we'll see who thinks the economy should have come first and ending restriction of any kind was a capital idea.
And that's the funny hypocrisy of the whole damned thing. You're condemned if you show reluctance to pumps yourself with a drug that may or may not adversely affect you, but cheered to the rafters if you champion everyone's god given right to cram themselves into a venue like clowns stuffing themselves into a beat up mini.

To quote the blazingly obvious statement from UK's Govt research team "where there are crowds, there is COVID", but hey, if you want to party your arse off, more power to ya.

COVID should NEVER have been politicised. Turning it into a tribal war of abuse is moronic playground thinking. Taking any drug is a big deal and should always be a matter of choice. As long as that choice is considered and scientifically informed that should be an end to it.

Frankly I couldn't give a flying fuck who takes current vaccines or not.
Here's what I do get pissed off about. People who go into crowded places without wearing masks. People who wear masks but under their noses. Or on their chins. People who have never been formally introduced to hot water and soap. People who don't observe proper distancing in public places. Idiots who cram onto public transport like sardines, insist on going to pubs and clubs concerts and music festivals. because - y'know... "Freedom". And don't even get me started on the morons who have jumped on planes for countries that have never seen PPE let alone vaccines, spent all night every night bellowing like bison on heat in local dive clubs then come back with whatever they are carrying and gone straight into general population and every day life because now we've dumped PCR tests in favour of lateral flow which returns a higher than 50% false negative and there's no need to quarantine.

Those are the idiots who are going to kill everyone. Not a blonde in yoga pants telling people in a web video why she chose not to take the current generation of drugs. So if you want to camp on someone's lawn with a torch or pitchfork, pick one of them and have at it.
I'll hold your coat.


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Postby sly575 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:32 pm


phunkyfeelalone - maybe you have more up to date data, but this report from September has 81% of people in hospital being unvaccinated, 15% having had one shot and 3% having had 2 shots. If you have more up to date info it would be heplful.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-23/ ... /100484718


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Postby davidkamien » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:58 pm


Hello friends. Can I please respectfully request we enjoy this forum without all the social commentary? Some of us come here to escape that kind of thing. I believe in free speech and that everyone's opinion is valuable, but it should be posted on a different forum that is appropriate for those kind of discussions. Thank you.


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Postby nsgtr34 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:27 pm


phunkyfeelone wrote:
People should always be able to choose for themselves, and shouldn't be vilified for their choices.

They can choose not to get the vaccine but they should fuck off and not clog up the hospitals when they do catch COVID.

This is aimed at the conspiracy theorist nuts not people with legitimate health issues.


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Postby wolverine » Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:31 pm


davidkamien wrote:
Hello friends. Can I please respectfully request we enjoy this forum without all the social commentary? Some of us come here to escape that kind of thing. I believe in free speech and that everyone's opinion is valuable, but it should be posted on a different forum that is appropriate for those kind of discussions. Thank you.


Number of thanks on this post says it all, thank you davidkamien. Let's stop here please. Any further discussion on this topic should be in it's own thread in General Chat section (create one if you want to).


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Postby phunkyfeelone » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:56 pm


Following on from the Sam Frost stuff which was on topic but off Sam herself.


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Postby Ebbie » Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:18 pm


Photos of a pretty girl in yoga pants will always take precedence over discussion, no matter how serious. Personally I wouldn't have a problem if this entire discussion including the comment that instigated it were moved off the thread.

That being said sometimes there's really no choice but to speak up and speak out.
Constant snide slurs aside, the amount of people who get their information on this larger subject from a bloke down the pub who read it on a website written by a woman who learned it from a Trump supporter on Twitter who got it from her Pastor, Willie Gunzablazin at the Holy Trinity of Smith Wesson and Glock is amazing.

The last 18 months have only served to affirm my opinion that the human race is the cockroach of the mammalian world.


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Postby phunkyfeelone » Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:55 am


Tripitaka wrote:
Sam Frost Logic 101 :D


If the government and scientists tells you to take a vaccine, cos it might help save your life, you should be able to tell them - no, it's my choice.

If the government and scientists tell you to wear a seat belt, cos it might help save your life, you should be able to tell them - no, it's my choice.

If the government and scientists tell you to wear sunscreen, cos it might help save your life, you should be able to tell them - no it's my choice.

If the government and scientists tell you to have a tetanus shot after stepping on a rusty nail, cos it might help save your life, you should be able to tell them - no, it's my choice.


Cheers
Trip


If the government and scientists tells you to take a vaccine, cos it might help save your life, you should be able to tell them - no, it's my choice.
If the vaccine is more likely to cause harm (for my demographic), then it must be a choice. There is no actual data to suggest the vaccine prevents death, as there is no control group to measure against.
Less people died in Australia 2020 than in 2019. This was without vaccines.


If the government and scientists tell you to wear a seat belt, cos it might help save your life, you should be able to tell them - no, it's my choice.
The seatbelt doesn't increase or add risk in itself.

If the government and scientists tell you to wear sunscreen, cos it might help save your life, you should be able to tell them - no it's my choice.
Sunscreen is a choice. Sunscreen has also been linked to causing a number of skin injested toxins.

If the government and scientists tell you to have a tetanus shot after stepping on a rusty nail, cos it might help save your life, you should be able to tell them - no, it's my choice.
It is a choice. They don't take away your livelihood, keep you out of public places, and segregate you if you choose not to have a tetanus shot.

All really weak arguments for allowing free choice. Do better Trip.


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