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 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice referendum 

How will you be voting in the upcoming Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice referendum?
Poll ended at Sat Oct 21, 2023 2:11 pm
Undecided 4%  4%  [ 8 ]
Firm Yes 33%  33%  [ 70 ]
Undecided Yes 5%  5%  [ 10 ]
Firm No 54%  54%  [ 113 ]
Undecided No 5%  5%  [ 10 ]
Total votes : 211

 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice referendum 
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Postby phunkyfeelone » Mon Aug 07, 2023 1:09 pm


Comments are welcome, let's have a civilised discussion.


Martin Prince
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Postby johnco99 » Mon Aug 07, 2023 8:57 pm


I would love to know anyone's rationale for choosing No


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Postby Tripitaka » Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:31 am


I'm an Undecided No at this point - so I could still be swayed to vote yes.

Three main reasons for leaning towards No :

1. The Voice Committee/Group/Forum will be set up, all good. The government at the time can still choose to ignore whatever they say or recommend anyway, so what's the point of a having a Voice, if you don't even need to listen to it.

2. The cost - current estimates have it at $ 75.2 million - that's just to run the referendum and set up the Voice Group. Why not - build 5 new schools, or like 10 new medical centres with the money. That's not just trying to understand and improve Education - that is giving education.

3. The Facebook meme that's going round on it, that kinda makes sense :

Albanese : We're going to set up a new committee that will be based solely on separating and giving preferential treatment to one race.
Voter : And......
Albanese : And if you don't vote to separate races, then YOU'RE a racist !


As I said, not firmly in the No camp, but more leaning towards it.


Cheers
Trip


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Postby fya69 » Tue Aug 08, 2023 12:49 pm


Firm NO... So does anyone remember growing up during the WOG era?

As a person who was born in Australia of migrant parents who went through WWII, grew up and went to school in the mid/late 70's/early 80's, the amount racism I received was disgusting. Going to school is an all white/Anglo environment was soul crushing... being called a wog, spat on and treated with contempt even by the WHITE Teachers just because of my surname (as I am fair haired, fair skinned and light eyed...) was pure Racism, Segregation, Alienation etc. etc. etc... not inclusion.

The voice referendum WILL insight racism, segregation, alienation etc. etc. etc... @ a constitutional level and is NOT just inclusion/recognition. As a retired lawyer, defining it in the constitution opens this up to massive amounts of legal avenues for a minority... look at the New Zealand Failure and before anyone say's otherwise, talk to the non Maori and get their views 1st. Also let's not go to the "South African Experiment" and that FUBAR of a country.

2021 Censuss... Approx 25,700,000 Million people live in AUS with only 984,000(3.8%) being of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander decent to be given constitutional recognition ONLY, Like What The <blank>???, what about the migrants then @ 29.8%(or 7,600,00 million) shouldn't we all be recognized in the Constitution as well?

Then we have this clown of a PM who will try his hardest to put it in the constitution(regardless of the referendum... these were HIS words by the way don't forget), then we add the majority of the woke and brainwashed 18-35 year old demographic that will vote yes and it will be closer than it should ever be.

My final words are... Vote no, treat everyone with dignity, respect and thoughtfulness of your fellow human being and stop this madness.


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Postby smileybrisbane » Tue Aug 08, 2023 12:58 pm


Tripitaka wrote:
I'm an Undecided No at this point - so I could still be swayed to vote yes.

Three main reasons for leaning towards No
…..
As I said, not firmly in the No camp, but more leaning towards it.

Cheers
Trip


Really well thought out.

I look at it a bit more globally or wholistically. I think about myself as an indigenous person (I’m not, I’m white middle aged middle income) with a house. 235 years ago someone walked into my house, uninvited and killed a bunch of my family. They threw some others out of rooms in the house and they weren’t allowed back in. For most of those 235 years the new occupiers of my house told me and my family what to do, my families culture and language slowly disappeared. The new family running the house in more recent years has been forced through their own families processes (court) to recognise this is my house but results of that may vary. At times the new family showed that for everything that had happened, they were also completely contemptuous of ever giving true equality (Juukan George comes to mind). Now, finally, the new families leader is offering an opportunity to have a mechanism that may mean what my family has to say will be heard and considered. What I know about the family is they have to listen to a lot of opinions when they make decisions and somehow even though we’re all equal, somehow people with a lot of money get heard much better than a lot of other families like mine, the family of disabled folk down the road, all the immigrant families, poor families etc. The Voice referendum is an opportunity for Australians to say - yep fair enough you do deserve to be heard and have a channel to have your say heard more than others, because at the end of the day this was your house and we took it off you and have done a shitful job of listening to you when we said we were. Not just because, but because your culture and language and traditions matter to you as much as ours do to us.

Racism, money, debate are the details and noise, but at its core that’s what I feel I’m voting on. I’m not giving the house away either, just saying we need to do a better job of getting on together.

My 5c


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Postby phunkyfeelone » Tue Aug 08, 2023 3:29 pm


johnco99 wrote:
I would love to know anyone's rationale for choosing No


1. Why can't they listen to the current 140+ panels, and what will a super-panel add?
2 We have a Minister for Indigenous Affairs, isn't her role supposed to be the voice to parliament?
3. It's installing a permanent left leaning body, and if you don't listento them, you're a racist.
4. We are all Australian - one voice, one vote
5. The panel will be chosen, not elected.
6. What happens to the $b each year toeard Indigenous support
7. This will lead to native title taxes, paying the rent and compensation
8. It should be tested with legislation before being enshrined into law
9. ALP have given no detail, but just trust them
10. Because anything Dan Andrews supports, do the opposite.


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Postby Hawz » Thu Aug 10, 2023 12:31 am


This is a pointless poll, people will vote along their political party lines because no one has a brain outside that as Phunkyfeelone just proved. Rabid anti Daniel Andrews is why he's voting no and the rest of the "points" don't actually matter.


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Postby HumphreyBBear » Thu Aug 10, 2023 3:40 am


phunkyfeelone wrote:
johnco99 wrote:
I would love to know anyone's rationale for choosing No


It's installing a permanent left leaning body


??? Are all aboriginals left wing? Have you advised Warren Mundine and Jacinta Price of this? :cofee:


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Postby JustAFan » Thu Aug 10, 2023 11:44 am


This is one of those political topics where everyone cries doom and gloom if it passes, then when it does pass life continues on like normal and there's just effectively a 'committee' that represents Aboriginal people where their opinions are sought after when there's intentions for parliament to do something that could affect them and their communities.

I think it's a relatively non-issue debates that has somehow blown out to: "ChAnGeS iN tHe CoNsTiTuTiOn" by people who haven't even read a word of the document they fear that will be changed, or that somehow this will increase racial divides etc.

The irony of this post is that I'm currently leaning on NO (though will probably be too lazy to cast the vote at all), but not because of any of these nonsense conspiracy theories about it.

I need to be persuaded and convinced to vote YES, I don't need to be convinced of anything to vote NO.
If the YES vote passes I wouldn't be the slightest bit upset about it either, I'm not passionate about either side.

NO = status quo
YES = change


The marketing of "the voice to parliament" is quite silly IMO, poor choice of wording. If they could make this referendum as clear cut as the Gay Marriage one, they would have the YES vote in the bag.
Gay Marriage was extremely simple to understand, and very clear what one was voting for. There was also a strong demand for it before anyone ever spoke about a referendum.
Where is the demand and need for 'The Voice to Parliament'? This just kind of popped up out of nowhere..

There's no sense of 'equality' in voting yes.. This isn't the right for Aboriginal people to vote, or their right to have citizenship or anything like that - I'd be all for that. This referendum just isn't that.


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Postby phunkyfeelone » Thu Aug 10, 2023 2:43 pm


HumphreyBBear wrote:
phunkyfeelone wrote:
johnco99 wrote:
I would love to know anyone's rationale for choosing No


It's installing a permanent left leaning body


??? Are all aboriginals left wing? Have you advised Warren Mundine and Jacinta Price of this? :cofee:

Do you genuinely think that right leaning people will be selected?

ALP will set up the first panel, then leave it to the panel to add new members.
And they won't pick anyone who doesn't fit the agenda.


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